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Not-So-Speedy Dressage

From Endurance to Dressage

How Vets and Judges are Alike

4/24/2012

 
I haven't met very many dressage riders who are showing for the first time as adults.  Most of the riders I meet showed in another discipline before dressage, and most of them as kids or teens.  I think I am a bit of an anomaly in that I never "showed" as a kid or as an adult before striking out into the world of dressage.

That doesn't mean I don't have any competition experience.  

In fact, not to toot my own horn (doesn't that mean I am about to?), but my fifteen seasons (82 races) of endurance riding taught me a lot about navigating the world of competition and how to do it with patience, perseverance, honesty, and tactfulness.  Even though endurance races might not look like serious events, they are.  

Here's a quick rundown of how a race works: you show up on Friday and present your horse to the vet.  You receive a vet card that will travel with you throughout the next day, usually in a Zip-loc baggie.  (How's that for serious?!)  The vet notes your horse's current condition on the card.  You start the ride the next day. Depending on the length of the race, you will see the vet three to six times, or more, during the course of the day.  He or she will continue noting the condition of your horse.  If at any point during the day your horse does not meet the established criteria for pulse and respiration, hydration, and way of going, you and your horse are eliminated.  At the finish, you must present your horse for a final check where he is evaluated one more time.  If your horse doesn't meet all of the established criteria, you are eliminated even though you have finished the entire course. 

During my first decade of riding, a pull, non-completion, was viewed by your competition as something of which to be embarrassed.  Finishing was the ultimate goal.  Not finishing meant that you made an error.  You weren't fit enough, or your horse wasn't.  And even though AERC's motto has always been To Finish is to Win, it means something different today.  Not finishing no longer carries such a palpable stigma of failure.  I think this is in large part to the change in the vet/rider relationship.  In the old days, there was more of an adversarial relationship between riders and vets.  It often felt that the vets were out to get us as opposed to helping us.  During my last few years of endurance, that atmosphere changed.  The climate of the vet check changed considerably to one where the vets became part of your team.

The vet is very similar to a judge.  The vet fills out your card with scores and comments.  In the old days, the ride manager would occasionally mail your vet card to you once the race was over so you could keep the vet's comments and scores for your records.  (I've posted one below.)  It is the vet who determines whether you get to keep going, or whether you're done.  When a horse appears questionable, the relationship that you've fostered with the vet can be utilized to get a better understanding of where your horse truly is which can prevent an unnecessary pull.  As with judges, a pleasant attitude with the vet will go a long way toward making your day a better one.

Why the heck am I even comparing vets to judges?  What does this have to do with showing?  

I was on the fringe of a conversation recently where dressage judges were being discussed.  Oh, all right it was at Saturday's clinic!  The conversation went something like this.  "Pick your shows based on the caliber of judge.  "R" judges aren't as good as "S" judges and should be avoided.  Furthermore, pick your shows based on which particular judge is presiding as there are mean and unpleasant judges out there who should be given a wide berth."

My response to this was a simple, hmm.  I added the comment that I choose my shows based on which ones will give me the experience that I am searching for at that moment (three-star experience, new venue, repeated venue, a chance for a CDS score, schooling shows for trying new tests, etc).  Remember that this is my view of my equine experience - my opinion wasn't taken very seriously.  

Here's yet another endurance story which might illustrate my point: Not all endurance vets are friendly.  Some are downright cranky, although those old and cranky dudes seem to be fewer and fewer.  There was one particular vet a number of years ago that was a complete ass.  He was so nasty to me that I swore to never attend a race where he was vetting.  And I didn't.  I also didn't drag his name in the dirt, nor did I publicly discourage other people from attending races where he was vetting.  He was a jerk, and not just to me, but it's up to each rider to accumulate her own experiences so that she can make informed decisions about her own competitive journey.

I am not ready to choose shows based on the judge.  I want to show for as many judges as possible so that I can (once again) fill my own Bag of Experience.  It is only with first-hand experiences that we gather enough information to make informed choices.  Making decisions based solely on someone else's experience, no matter how generously offered, serves only to cheat yourself out of a potential learning opportunity.  And as a life-long learner, I'll give it a try myself, thank you very much.

Click photos for captions and larger view.
Mary Meyer
4/23/2012 11:01:44 pm

I totally agree that you don't pick shows based on judges, but some judges' opinions are worth more than others! Vets deal with measurable evidence, judging is almost totally subjective. Some judges, particularly "r", only judge through 2nd level. They are the bottom of the recognized judging levels. If you are showing above 2nd level, you cannot show in front of them and have the score count. The next level is "R" and they can judge up to 4th level. And "S" level can judge through the FEI levels. You obviously don't need to worry about this right now. But for many of us with limited show budgets, you want the most educated opinion you can get. And unfortunately many little "r" judges predate the "L" program and haven't made the effort to move up the judges ladder. Looking at the judge as your educator, you will better understand why we don't want to spend money on some judges.

Sarah link
4/24/2012 03:49:53 am

Endurance question - are the alphabetical marks on the vet sheet like school grades (A-, B+, C, etc)? Or do they mean something else?

Thanks to Mary for the breakdown on dressage judge designations. Good to know.

Karen I love that you want to learn things through your own experiences! Obviously the experience someone else had with a certain judge or certain designation of judge will be different from yours - after all, you're still new to this discipline, and there are plenty of other factors on which to decide what shows to attend.

At one of my first unrated derby events (dressage + combined stadium and cross country), my trainer told me and the horse's owner that the dressage judge I had was known to be biased against horses of color and that I should flat out ignore some of her remarks on my test. However, my trainer then told my friend (who had the same judge, same test) that this judge was known for being "harsh" with her remarks, so that she should be really proud for scoring high in several categories. Being harsh and being biased are two completely different things - so which is it? Ultimately we left that trainer, but the lesson taught me to ignore what people tell me about judges - I take each comment to heart, but mostly I try to recall how *I* felt about my performance.

Karen
4/24/2012 07:36:21 am

Sarah - the ABC marks are like the grades on a report card (A is high, B is lower, and C is lower still). Vetting scores are actually quite subjective. One vet's A may be another vet's B-. Some vets just give everyone an "Ok" without the distinction of an A or B. Knowing the particular vet will clarify the marks. If the vet is known to give all As unless there is a distinct problem, the A doesn't really give you much info (sort of like pas or fail). Likewise, if the vet just likes to use "ok" or B, that doesn't tell you if your horse is doing particularly well.

That was really the point of my post. When we gain more experience, we are more qualified to make informed decisions. I never went completely with the vet's scores. I always looked at how my horse felt to me since I knew her or him better than the vet. Montoya almost had a C on her gut sounds. That alarmed some vets who didn't know her well. I knew that her gut just got quiet during a race but that her appetite would return at the finish. I always watched her carefully, but I didn't let the score bother me. On the other hand, when vets would give her an A on gut sounds, I never got too excited about it since I knew it was probably on the quieter side.

This isn't to say that I didn't greatly value the vet's comments. I did, but I used their scores only as another piece of information. Ultimately, it was my job to piece all the info together to come to a decision about my horse's health.

Not knowing the trainer you left, I hate to say anything bad about her, but it doesn't sit well with me that she "set you up" for disappointment. That may not have been her intention, but it didn't seem very positive either. A trainer that I used for a couple of lessons predicted that I would do pretty poorly at the next show. I ended up scoring like a 63% on the test. Needless to say, I didn't go back for more lessons.

I would much rather work with someone who shares what they know, but who also realizes that I need to be the one who ultimately makes the decision. In fact, I have a post about this very topic ready to go this week!

And you're right about how I choose the shows I want to attend. Money, proximity, work schedule, weather, and the venue all take precedence right now over the level of judge. I have researched what the letter next to the judge's name means so I understand that some have more training than others. And frankly, it would be great to always show under the most knowledgeable judges. But that's not my reality.

It's like my first few years as a teacher. Good thing nobody used experience as the criteria or I would have never had any students. Am I a better teacher now than I was 20 years ago? I hope so, but I had a lot of great things to offer my students as a first year teacher. I did things back then that I won't do now, like take phone calls from parents at home. No way, Jose!

Those lower level judges need to gain experience just like I did as a young teacher. Will all of them continue their education? No, but that doesn't mean they don't have good things to offer the riders they judge.

And that's my 99 cents worth on that topic! Sorry to be so long winded. Thanks for the comment, Sarah.

Sarah
4/25/2012 02:14:58 am

Thanks, Karen!

Val
4/24/2012 05:03:23 am

Those are some interesting comparisons.

I do not show often enough to be picky about the judge behind C, but I can understand why a rider would want the most highly trained judge if there were a choice. Dressage is frustrating enough without having to worry about reliable scores and opinions.

Karen
4/24/2012 07:38:14 am

I always just expect the judge to be fair to the best of his or her ability. We can't always have "teacher of the year" as our instructor, but it doesn't mean the young teacher (lower level judge) doesn't bring a lot to the table! :0)

Mary Meyer
4/24/2012 09:19:54 am

Actually experienced riders aren't worried about whether a judge scores high/low, has prejudices, or even is nasty (although for the kids and beginners we want civility - it is also part of our training - to be positive). Our biggest criticism of a judge is inconsistency. You want to know that if you repeated the same test that you did yesterday, the score would be roughly the same. Unfortunately some judges are very inconsistent. It is very difficult to learn from such a judge! Many of the little r judges have not advanced because of this problem.

Katharyn
4/24/2012 03:40:57 pm

Wow, great post and great comments! I didn't start showing (or riding) until I was 18 and in college. In collegiate showing, you pick a horse out of a hat, hop on, and enter the ring. There is so much beyond your control, the judge is the last thing on your mind. You are pretty much happy with a good ride, and there is no feedback from the judge, except your placing if you place of course. After graduation in 2003, I have been to 2 shows, one UCD event derby where I did jump only a few months after I bought my horse in 2008, and another UCD event derby in 2011, when I did my first dressage test. Every time I think I'm going to "get back into showing", something happens, and I don't. It is going to be a very long time before I worry one iota about judges!

Karen
4/25/2012 11:15:00 pm

I love reading about collegiate showing (I read a blog by a woman doing just that). What a challenge that must be! If the shows are fun and up your alley, do another one! Yozo is a great horse and will happily tote you around the dressage court or field! :0)

Katharyn
4/26/2012 01:15:21 am

Well, UCD is having their spring derby this Sunday, but I've decided not to go. I just spent a TON of money on my first dressage saddle and I'm still getting used to it. My jump saddle is in the shop indefinitely at this point. The next dressage show that I know of in this area is May 12, and I might try to go to that one. I could try to do Intro A and B, but Yozo does not consistently pick up or maintain the canter still, so no C for me for who knows how long. Just not sure it is worth the money and effort to show at this point...

Melinda Faubel link
4/25/2012 06:58:09 am

I never showed as a kid. I got into endurance as an adult, and I started showing dressage as an adult. I think that I rapidly adjusted and didn't feel out of place compared to the people that had been showing since they were kids. BUT --> because I didn't show as a junior I'm also rather skeptical about junior programs/incentives. So many of them don't work, and you STILL lose them between 20 and 30, and at least in endurance, you WANT those active, non-injuried 20 year olds to come in and give the sport a bit of a lift :). It's frusterating to see so much money and effort being poured into a program I didn't see working - after all there wasn't anyone my age (early 20's competing) and I wasn't there because I had been involved as a junior. A new model is needed.

Also - this post reminds me of a post I have in draft form. How important it is for the adult that has never showed to realize just how difficult it is to do something underpressure in the show ring. I just shake my head when I hear someone tell me how good their 20 meter circles are, or are at an agility competition and say disparangyingly how much better than weave poles are than the dog competing in the ring --> Oh sure, it's one thing to get a behavior at HOME, in a time and place of your choosing, it's quite another thing to get that same behavior under pressure, in a new place, at a certain time dictated by a judge and to get one shot at it. People/adults who haven't shown don't seem to get it. In a dressage test you don't get to set up your circle and then say "OK - I'm ready" and then do it at the time and place that is ideal like at home --> you get to do it at a letter RIGHT NOW.

Endurance riding may be the only competitive sport I know of that if you've never tried it and you say "there's no way I could do that" - youare probably wrong and you and your horse are way more capapble than you think.

Sorry this is kinda off topic.

Karen
4/25/2012 10:56:33 pm

Mel,

I don't have too much feeling one way or other about juniors competing. As you say I think a lot of money is spent on developing young riders, but as you say many leave once they're adults. No wonder as showing/competing on your own dime is expensive. I think most have to finish college, get a career going, and then get some discretionary cash. I like the idea of encouraging the kids, but you bring up some good points.

I don't feel a lot of pressure at shows, actually. I think it may be because my number one goal is to enjoy myself. I always work hard before the show to put out my best effort, but having fun is my real purpose. Being successful is fun so the work is easy to do. So far, show nerves haven't taken over, but that may be because I choose my shows pretty carefully. Just like endurance rides, you do some research to make sure you and your horse are ready for that event. I only mis-judged one endurance ride.

And I think you're mostly right - most people can complete an endurance ride ride - once. The trick is to do it again, and again, and again. That's where the challenge really is (as you know). :0)

Karen

Melinda Faubel
4/25/2012 06:58:33 am

oops - forgot to subscribe to comments!


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    About the Writer and Rider

    ​I am a lifelong rider. 
    I began endurance riding in 1996 where I ultimately completed five, one-day 100 mile races, the 200-mile Death Valley Encounter, and numerous other 50, 65, and 75 mile races. I began showing dressage in 2010.
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